Can Moffat just bring River back? She’s the female character with the most depth and it would look a far sight better if we saw the Doctor having adventures with his wife, who is not only his partner but his equal. There’s so much left unexplored with River and the Doctor, And really it should be no surprise that far more people of all ages (and especially women) can connect to River than these young pretty white girls that seem to be mostly thrown on screen as sexual objects for the adult white male audience. The exceptions in New Who are Martha, Donna and River.
Okay, you know what? NO. Fuck this. Fuck it all.
First, thank you for clearing up some of the Clara facts.
Second, no one isn’t saying Clara isn’t important. EVERY Companion is important, even the one shots.
Third, you did get a number of facts wrong. So just as you’re telling the the OP that (s)he can’t judge Clara on a wrong detail you can’t judge River or her fandom wrongly either. You can’t change facts to bolster Clara either.
BTW, any of these facts can be found with a quick Google search, just so you know I’m not lying.
For starters, River was gone by the end of Series 7. Her character had faded, the Doctor had accepted that his time with her had ended.
Moffat himself stated this was wrong. With them being out of sync, the Doctor can still meet her and since River knows many, many Doctors, she could show up in 13th’s life.
And Clara didn’t just ‘offer’ herself to him, she and the Doctor both fancied each other
That’s also wrong and proven so in 5 different ways:
- Steven Moffat, Matt Smith, and Jenna Louise Coleman all say there was nothing like that between the two.
- Moffat said the attraction and “crush” was one way from Clara’s part.
- While the Doctor probably felt an initial attraction, he quickly changed his feelings. Hence all his body language proving it.
- We know how the Doctor — in all forms — shows he’s attracted to someone and wants to pursue it. You can just take Matt Smith’s Doctor & the myriad of ways he shows it and see he displays none of these with Clara. Why? Because of reasons 1 and 2. It’s why he actually does the opposite.
- The Doctor does not change his feelings with a different body. He never has, not since the very first one. It’s why they had Capaldi’s Doctor say what he did about his feelings towards Clara, echoing what Moffat said during series 7: the feelings are on her side only. If they weren’t, the new Doctor would not have said that to her. He would have said he felt the same way as her.
So, in reality, Clara is like Martha before she walked away. The Doctor just treated Clara about it which is why she didn’t have to do what Martha did. The Doctor finally learned his lesson there.
River is an ex because she, y’know, died
River died the day he met her. Never stopped him from pursuing her, marrying her, and spending centuries with her. Of all the people he “married” — for real or fake setups — he only called one person his wife. So yes, River had been dead a long time like they said in NOTD. But she’s also been alive and his life for just as long.
Okay, so when the person you fancy starts going on about/talking to their exes how do you react?
Well, since they don’t feel the same way about you, you should handle it graciously. In fact, even if they loved you back, you should handle it well. I’m the fourth person my husband has been in love with; I’m his second wife. Do you think I get upset over his exes when he talks about them? Hell no. Why should I? That’s stupid. I’ve even met every single one of them. Lovely women, every one of ‘em.
If I go first and he has someone else in his life: would she be upset when he talks about me or shows things from our life together? Of course not; what kind of bitch would do that? Do you think my husband gets upset over my exes? Or if I survive him and find someone to make me happy?
I’m certainly not the only person like that. I’ve had this conversation with plenty of people like uandmetimeandspaceuwatchusrun.
Friendly reminder at this point that Clara has literally saved the Doctor’s life more times than ANYONE ELSE
I have no idea how you think that. Because of TNOTD? It still doesn’t add up.
- Plenty of Companions have known multiple Doctors including 1 - 11. The Brigadier, for example. And he saved the Doctor more in just one season than Clara has yet. Leela saved the Doctor in every single one of her episodes. K-9 has saved him more.
- If you knew about TEC, you’d know Moffat wrote that River knows Doctors 1 - 11; and TEC is canon. So Clara isn’t even the only one to know all the Doctors.
- And since River has known him for centuries and we’re already told they have many, many adventures together that weren’t onscreen, you can’t compare her numbers to Clara who has been around for not even a year.
Also, showing the First Doctor which Tardis to go with was unnecessary as we saw in “The Doctor’s Wife”. The Tardis told us she had arranged it that he would have to go with her. So even if Clara wasn’t there, he and Susan would have left with THE Tardis.
BUT! Like I said in the beginning, that does NOT undermine what Clara has done. It’s just a friendly reminder that Clara has not saved his life more times than anyone else.
and he still hasn’t properly thanked her.
Yes, he did. He said it right in Name of the Doctor as he saved her life.
Clara and the Doctor both fancied each other, it wasn’t Clara throwing herself at some guy who wasn’t interested.
Yes, it was because again, he reacted the way he does with anyone he’s not interested in and not at all the way he reacts when he does.
See the points above on how Moffat and everyone involved said there never was anything like what you’re suggesting. “Whouffle” didn’t exist in any form.
NO, we DON’T need River back.
Oh yes, you do.
- In RL, River has the best ratings out of every character in New Who. She set new records and brought in the American as well as full international audience.
- On the flip side, Clara has the lowest. In fact, they haven’t been this low since late in Classic Who.
Every single person who has tried to say that’s not true ends up saying it is. To bolster Clara’s number, they add the specials to the series numbers and do an average. However, they each admit to it and say millions dropped out each week.
Now Matt leaving and Peter coming in has picked up the ratings. Hopefully, Peter can keep that momentum and adding Danny will also do that. Because Clara’s story arc lost a lot.
So the show would obviously love to back to their peak numbers. And Clara’s story did best when River came in for TNOTD.
Now, in universe, why it needs River back. Because she knows the Doctor at a better level than Clara. And Clara herself proved it:
DOCTOR: Am I a good man?
CLARA: I don’t know.
He has asked River this several times and each time she tells him the good and the bad. So as he struggles with this again, he’s better off with someone who can answer it.
For example: a River in university who is struggling with her own darkness and discovering him gives him a unique perspective.
Or a River later on, right after Stormcage or one rebuilding her life as a leader can once again shake him, bolster him, and get him where he needs to be.
That’s the difference between a wife and a companion.
her story has run its course
Again, Moffat has said she could easily be back and I just showed 2 places where she hasn’t been explored at all. If what you said was true, then Clara must leave the show now. Because we’ve seen the same details of her life that we’ve seen with River.
So if you want that to be the rule, you need to petition the BBC now to remove her character from the show because we know the answer to all her questions.
If you don’t want to apply that, then obviously whole chapters of River’s life are missing as well plus her life with the Doctor. First there’s all the ones we’ve been told about: what did she do with Ten at Asgard? How was Ten at the Byzantium? What else happened in the 3 years they were together? (Which is why David Tennant wants back to have adventures with River.) What happened at the Bone Meadows, Easter Island, and the first adventure with Jim the Fish? What happened in all those centuries in between? Moffat told us some about her adventures with 1 - 10 but we haven’t gotten the details or seen them.
And all of this character arc affects everyone around her including the Doctor.
Saying River’s story is done is like taking a 3 hour movie, coming in for the last 15 minutes, and saying you saw the whole thing.
Also, where is your fucking evidence that “far more people of all ages (and especially women) can connect to River than these young pretty white girls
- She has the best ratings of any New Who character, more than the younger women, even though she was part time and they are full time characters. That’s even though they couldn’t calculate how many people watched her episodes as recordings vs Clara’s which they could.
- She has won more awards than them. I’m not just talking about fan polls, I mean industry awards.
- Her episodes — the ones of her story line — and not any other character brought the international audience to New Who, especially America.
- In all demographic reports, her audience goes from small children to the “mature”. So we know exactly how far the range is and how many.
So that answers your questions about evidence and proof. You can read the BBC reports for yourself because like I said, it’s available. None of it’s made up.
I follow someone on Tumblr who probably wouldn’t even be here without Clara, so don’t you FUCKING DARE say people don’t relate to her.
The OP didn’t say no one relates to her. So absolutely people watch for Clara; but that also doesn’t mean millions don’t watch for River or any other companion.
It would be like someone saying people watch for human companions from Earth when ratings have shown that some of the most successful characters weren’t from Earth and not human at all.
SHE has saved the Doctor’s life more times than anyone else
Proven wrong. So let that go. Move on.
SHE convinced the Doctor to save Gallifrey rather than burn it
Many companions have saved Gallifrey. Look at Leela. Hell, she even married a Time Lord and protected Gallifrey for the rest of her life, uniting two separate factions of Time Lords.
So Clara is just one of them who have done so, not the number one person ever for doing it.
And she doesn’t come close to how many time the Doctor has saved Gallifrey and they have saved him.
This is just one time, an important one, but not the only or most important one.
SHE persuaded the Time Lords to give the Doctor a new regeneration
Also done by others. For example: Rassilon saved every single Doctor while protecting Gallifrey through his immortality, giving the Doctor back all his lives while his enemies tore them from him.
Saying it hasn’t happened would be like saying the Doctor says Gallifrey is evil with no good — when he’s actually said the opposite many times — or is blind to humanity and has never pointed out their evil as well as their good. Because he’s done that plenty of times.
Once more, I’m saying it doesn’t mean Clara’s not important but people can’t make statements like she’s the only one to do these things. She is one of a proud line of Companions and that’s a wonderful thing to be.
and done so much more besides that
So has every other character.
You love Clara and that’s great. You hate River and that’s fine. But just as you pointed out things that are true for Clara, you need to see the point of things that aren’t true.
I don’t hate Clara and I don’t hate her fan base just because I pointed out things above. I’m not a fan of hers and I stopped watching the show awhile ago because she does nothing for me just as I have stopped watching before and have come back for characters that appeal to me. That’s my prerogative just as you have yours.
Although she doesn’t really look it, Alex is almost twenty years than Matt. Furthermore, when Melody regenerates into Alex Kingston, she looks about thirty years older and still explodes with joy over her new body.
River is a very interesting character in general. Similar to Jack Harkness, she often feels like a character from another show that casually turns up in Doctor Who to see how the Doctor’s doing. Of course her story is very closely intertwined with the Doctor, but at an important point in her life, she consciously chose to stop running after him and live life her own way. She never travels with him for too long. Yes, she may be his wife and she may love him, but she still got her own stuff to do.” — Is Steven Moffat a Feminist Writer? [X] (via kerjenfanfic)
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Thank you so much!
Matt Smith Photo + Quotes Collection.
Even though it’s 2011, in addition some reviewers there are some writers or actors that would have a problem with the scenes you had in Christopher. Did that ever make you pause?
Matt Smith: It’s just part of my job and I just dived in really. They give you this little pouch to put on and all that sort of stuff and you just really have a go at it. It’s just make believe. It’s not the first time I had to kiss a man and hey it could be worse. Alexander and Doug are pretty handsome guys. It could’ve been worse. It’s just part of the job. It affirmed in my mind that there is not one gay bone in my body. I finally understand the true gripes of my girlfriend when she asks me to shave. I learned something about myself, I guess. To the age I’ve grown up in being homosexual is, I don’t know, like being straight, it’s what I’ve always been around. It’s nice now when I see younger people at schools and stuff who are more openly gay I think that’s good and that should be encouraged because some of my friends couldn’t come out until their thirties. I can’t imagine what that conversation is like as a gay man, how difficult it must be…
Way to go, Matthew ❤️❤️❤️
Stop trying to point out supposed “plot holes” in The Angels Take Manhattan which all really stem from you not understanding The Angels Take Manhattan.
Why isn’t anyone talking about this?
Watch non black cosplayers and lovers of cosplay stay silent on this.
Man what in the FUCK
Should have seen my mother’s face when I opened the parcel!
Pictures will be coming up soon!
i would probably just end up like
and that can’t be healthy
Classic Hollywood Bloopers
And the greatest Hollywood blooper of all time:
Subject: Promoting your story :-)
last week I stumbled upon ‘Epistolary: The 50 Years Before We Were Born’ AND I LOVED IT! I really like your writing style and the way you tell the story!!
I am a little versed in online marketing and as a huge fan, I would love to help you promote it more on other platforms and blogs to show it to more people. I can show you some tips how to do it :-)
I just tried to send you a link, but it seems not be possible to send links here… What is your email then I can send you an email. Or you can send me an email to “jansenbecky4 at gmail dot com”.
Have a great day!
I’m not sure what the deal is but this sounds as fake as a four dollar bill.
I think I’m gonna pass.
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I saw this and who could I think of but you!